Author Topic: Non-X10 toggle switches  (Read 6675 times)

bkenobi

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Non-X10 toggle switches
« on: November 20, 2013, 01:57:52 PM »
I've noticed that all of the buildings at my work have timer based lights so after 5pm they automatically turn off at least half the fixtures.  In some buildings, these switches look like two white over/under buttons.  In others, they look very similar to a standard toggle switch except they sit in the middle and you toggle them up/down.

The second type intrigues me because they are multi-way switches that come in multiple colors (including ivory/almond) and they are controllable by some kind of timer.  Does anyone know what these might be?  I have to believe they are some expensive units, but I' was wondering what corporations rely on for perfect operation?  Obviously, I can't open the cover to find any markings and the switch itself is not marked such that I've been able to see.

NJSailor

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Re: Non-X10 toggle switches
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2013, 11:00:03 AM »
There probably dozens of possibilities but here are two (one dimmer and one relay for fluorescents, etc.:
http://www.smarthome.com/2466DW/ToggleLinc-Dimmer-INSTEON-Remote-Control-Dimmer-Switch-White/p.aspx
http://www.smarthome.com/2466SW/ToggleLinc-Relay-INSTEON-Remote-Control-On-Off-Switch-Non-Dimming-White/p.aspx

These are very nice (but expensive) switches that are Insteon and X10 compatible. They can be controlled by an X10 timer, AHP, etc., but what I like about them is that they also transmits an X10 (and probably Insteon) code when manually activated so can be used as part of a multi switch system or to control other devices.

Smarthome used to have an X10 only version that was half the price but unfortunately it was discontinued.

Graham

Brian H

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Re: Non-X10 toggle switches
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2013, 11:30:00 AM »
Some of the latest Insteon modules are dropping X10 support.
I have also seen a report of a SwitchLinc Relay not accepting an X10 address even though the sale pages still said it would.

bkenobi

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Re: Non-X10 toggle switches
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2013, 11:38:41 AM »
Do you guys really think those switches are x10 or insteon?  They are certainly a non-dimming type, but I was expecting to hear about a different technology entirely.  I guess the alternative might involve running extra control wires to some kind of logic controller.

dave w

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Re: Non-X10 toggle switches
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2013, 02:37:08 PM »
Do you guys really think those switches are x10 or insteon? 
I doubt any industrial building would use Insteon, or X10 in todays world (in the 1980's - maybe, but not today). Did you check industrial lighting sites like Lutron, Cooper Industries, ILC, etc. for similar switches. Or is there a facilities manager? they should know who makes the system. My two cents is, it is probably a cat5 hardwired system.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2013, 02:46:20 PM by dave w »
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NJSailor

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Re: Non-X10 toggle switches
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2013, 02:42:07 PM »
Brian,
Thanks for the heads up. I was just going to order six more but now I better do some checking first.
Graham

Some of the latest Insteon modules are dropping X10 support.
I have also seen a report of a SwitchLinc Relay not accepting an X10 address even though the sale pages still said it would.

Brian H

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Re: Non-X10 toggle switches
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2013, 03:13:07 PM »
The original user who started the post. Said they where going to call Smarthome support but never gave us the answer they got.

I will see if I can find the exact message.
I believe this is the one I was thinking about.
http://www.smarthome.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13942&SearchTerms=X10

Side note. Getting close to the holidays. Many years Smarthome has a one or two day 20% off sale.  ;D
« Last Edit: November 24, 2013, 04:02:58 PM by Brian H »

Brian H

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Re: Non-X10 toggle switches
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2013, 03:29:24 AM »
The 20% off Black Friday sale on all Insteon Modules except the three just released modules. Is in effect.
I believe it is extended through the weekend.

NJSailor

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Re: Non-X10 toggle switches
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2013, 06:13:20 PM »
I couldn't resist the Black Friday sale and the possibility that X10 may be dropped from additional devices in the future.
Smarthome told me that the 2466 switches (Togglelinc) still support X10. The Insteon website says that most still do. For switches this means the ToggleLinc for now and the Dual Band switches (2477)
It appears that the switch mention on Brian's link (2476) has been discontinued. It was a single Band version.

Once I get these switches I will confirm the X10 status.

Graham

Brian H

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Re: Non-X10 toggle switches
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2013, 04:13:42 AM »
Will be waiting for you findings.
One small point that use to be shown on the sales web pages. The Dual Band Switchlincs are bigger and if you had cramped electrical boxes. It was possible the older power line only ones would fit and the Dual Bands didn't.

NJSailor

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Re: Non-X10 toggle switches
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2013, 01:36:12 PM »
Brian, your caution about size is well worth knowing. I checked the dimensions of all the switches (Insteon and X10) and was surprised by the variation. Fortunately I have deep boxes complete with Neutrals so it is not an issue with me.

I received the Insteon 2466DW (ToggleLinc Dimmer) switches and can confirm that SW version 6.2 (looks like mfg date of week 35 2013) still provide all the X10 support as shown in the manual. They accepted their X10 address immediately and worked with no problem, including the programming of start up brightness and ramp time.

I have run into one problem that is probably more X10 related but that is only when the switch functions as a slave switch. My XTBM is currently on its way back to me after Jeff upgraded it to the PRO model so I will provide an update when I understand exactly what is going on. The problem relates to the local dimming at a slave module. There is no problem with slave on-off so I can live with this if I cannot figure a work around.

Graham

Brian H

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Re: Non-X10 toggle switches
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2013, 03:10:13 PM »
Thank you for the added information.
Will be waiting for your findings on the slave switch.

You do know that Smarthome chose an alternate dim command for X10.
They send a single %dim command when dimmed or brightened. Other Insteon Modules with an optional X10 address and the Smarthome line of X10 switched. Do understand the %dim. X10 switches do not. Though when turned on full they send an X10 On and turned Off send an X10 Off command.

They will not accept an Extended X10 command used for brightening and dimming a Soft Start defined device in AHP, but should use the old full On then dim down string of X10 dim commands.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2013, 03:57:54 PM by Brian H »

NJSailor

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Re: Non-X10 toggle switches
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2013, 03:52:50 PM »
Thank you, I did not know that and you have probably saved me from a wild goose chase.

Are you aware of any documentation of the Insteon X10 implementation that might be available?

Fortunately I am dealing with all the same Insteon switches here. It appeared that the slaves were not sending or the master was not receiving what I assumed were the string of X10 dim commands. Now I will have to rethink my hypothesis... but after I get my XTBM. USPS said it would be delivered yesterday so I hope to get it Mon or Tue at the latest.
Graham

Brian H

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Re: Non-X10 toggle switches
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2013, 03:55:00 PM »
Smarthome X10WS467DI {2466D ToggleLinc Dimmer in disguise}.
Programed to B1 Address.

Smarthome 1132CU with Smarthome Essentials Software.

Advance Controller function. Receiving commands from the ToggleLinc Dimmer.

Turn On.
R: B1 - 6:39:26 PM 12/7/2013
R: BOn - 6:39:26 PM 12/7/2013
Turn Off
R: B1 - 6:39:29 PM 12/7/2013
R: BOff - 6:39:30 PM 12/7/2013
Brighten from Off.
R: B1 - 6:39:35 PM 12/7/2013
R: 42% Preset Dim 6:39:36 PM 12/7/2013
R: B1 - 6:39:40 PM 12/7/2013
R: 55% Preset Dim 6:39:40 PM 12/7/2013
Dim Down.
R: B1 - 6:39:44 PM 12/7/2013
R: 29% Preset Dim 6:39:44 PM 12/7/2013
R: B1 - 6:39:46 PM 12/7/2013
R: 19% Preset Dim 6:39:47 PM 12/7/2013
Turn Off.
R: B1 - 6:39:48 PM 12/7/2013
R: BOff - 6:39:49 PM 12/7/2013

Brian H

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Re: Non-X10 toggle switches
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2013, 04:19:28 PM »
Smarthome X10WS467DI {2466D ToggleLinc Dimmer in disguise}.

Got out my XTBM and monitored the signals when dimmed and brightened.

It showed random "I" Insteon messages detected or noise detected as the paddle was held Up or Down.
I guess it was sending an Insteon Dim or Brighten with paddle activation.
Then when I released the toggle paddle a random Capitol Letter xx PDim. Along with a signal level voltage reading.
Example Dxx PDim.





« Last Edit: December 07, 2013, 04:41:49 PM by Brian H »

 

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