Author Topic: Problem by HouseCode? It used to work!  (Read 9537 times)

Barry_IA

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Problem by HouseCode? It used to work!
« on: September 15, 2013, 04:34:57 PM »
I recently started having problems with the hanging light over my kitchen table (M2).  LM465 (old, not softstart), with the RKR24 keyfob.  Until about a month ago it worked fine - on/off/dim.  All of a sudden it stopped working.  I replaced both the controller and then the keyfob.  (Both are correctly configured.)  Started some testing.  The problem seems to be the DIM command isn't being transmitted (or received?).  Tried another keypad (HR12A).  Same results om M, but if I switch to HouseCodes J or N the HR12A will turn on. off, and dim/brighten!  Not a phase problem as J2 and J3 are on different phases and the HR12A works fine on that HouseCode,

Watching the GUI (ActiveHome Pro) the icon will show the switch turning on and off with the RKR24 keyfob and the HR12A switch, but the dimmer will stay where it is.  If at 0 stays at zero and the light is off.  I can use the software (GUI) to control the brightness and that part works fine.  Use the wireless controllers and even the the on-screen switch is flipped on or off the dim level is unchanged.

So it seems everything works some of the time, depending on combinations.  Any suggestions?

TIA!

Tuicemen

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Re: Problem by HouseCode? It used to work!
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2013, 04:10:19 AM »
House codes A, M and P were codes reported to try and stay away from.
There was a tread for this on the old X10 forums explaining why for each.
 A is obvious it is the default, P AHP use to send some P16 commands on start up.
M, I believe was hard ware related I'll see if I can find the thread.
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A warning label should have been added ;)

Jeff

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Re: Problem by HouseCode? It used to work!
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2013, 06:18:26 AM »
M13 has a very regular data pattern that is easily simulated by noise that dominates on one half cycle.  All it takes is another burst to fill in the extra "1" in the 1110 start pattern.  I saw it here when I was working on the xtb-232 firmware.  Here is  the discussion:

    http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=24039.0.html

Jeff
« Last Edit: September 20, 2016, 06:28:54 AM by Jeff »
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Barry_IA

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Re: Problem by HouseCode? It used to work!
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2013, 09:01:46 AM »
Hi Tuicemen and Jeff!

Thanks for the replies.  Reconfigured the test setup up here to B2.  Same issue!  Tried both a SoftStart LM465 and the older (original) LM465 modules individually, with the HR12A keypad.  (The controller I wasn't testing at the time was configured to P2.)  In both instances the AHP GUI showed the switch turning on/off but the dimmer staying where it was.  And LIS in the original post, the keypad is fine dimming other Housecodes in other rooms.  <Insert Twilight Zone theme!>

Barry_IA

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Re: Problem by HouseCode? It used to work!
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2013, 09:56:10 AM »
<Read addentum>

Have been doing a little more testing.  The RKR24 keyfob is set for M1 and M2 (the it-used-to-work configuration).  M1 is for the outside fountain, M2 the inside kitchen light.  The keyfob turns the GUI switch on/off but does not turn the appliance module on.  It used to, and hasn't for a while.  In the interim I've replaced the battery and reprogrammed it thinking that was the problem.  The software controls as normal. 

One thing I've noticed is the RR501 Transceiver Module hasn't clicked when the software turns on the fountain pump.  So I'm wondering if this module failed?  Pushing the On/Off button in the face does nothing.  Does the RR501 insert the signals into the wiring??  Though I'm still wondering why the HR12A keypad and the RKR24 keyfob's on/off function toggles the GUI but not the dimming function.  OTOH the remotes make the GUI show the device is on or off and it isn't....  (I'm so confused!!)

...Off to earn some money to maybe buy a new RR501 if I need one!

Addendum:
Tested with the HR12A:

Set to M  -- M1 does not turn appliance module on nor off.
                   M2 does not control old lamp module on nor off (much less dim)

Set to J  --  J2 properly controls lights: on, dim, off
                  J3 properly controls lights: on, dim. off
                  These lights are on different circuits and different phases!

So the hand controller works, doesn't need the RR501, but doesn't like 'new' circuits.  (LIS, used to work!! <Is there a 'cuckoo' smiley up there?!>)
« Last Edit: September 16, 2013, 10:30:54 AM by Barry_IA »

Tuicemen

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Re: Problem by HouseCode? It used to work!
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2013, 11:55:13 AM »
Have you introduced some new electronic device to this circuit?
It looks like something is either producing noise or sucking up the x10 signal on that circuit.
X10 turned me into a Software programmer.
A warning label should have been added ;)

Brian H

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Re: Problem by House Code? It used to work!
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2013, 12:22:08 PM »
The RR501 is a transceiver and takes the RF signals from the HR12A and send power line commands.
The CM15A is also a transceiver so it also would be taking the hR12As RF signal and sending power line signals.
Though the CM15A can be set to not transceiver a House Code in the Hardware Configuration menu of AHP.
It could be possible you do have a power line issue and with the RR501 out of the setup. Areas that use to be getting a power line signal. Are now not receiving them through the CM15A.

Jeff

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Re: Problem by HouseCode? It used to work!
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2013, 02:12:55 PM »
The fact that the RR501 does not toggle in response to the pushbutton is an indication that something is wrong.  At first I thought that a high noise source might cause the RR501 to go into some sort of busy mode because of its polite transmitter, but my "test" RR501 responded to the pushbutten even when being hit with very high powerline noise.

Jeff
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dave w

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Re: Problem by HouseCode? It used to work!
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2013, 05:30:09 PM »
So maybe the RR501 died, and there is a noise source between the CM15A and the target M1-2 module(?). Anytime I hear "It worked yesterday, it don't work today" (or it used to work, but now it don't) I always think noise.
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Brian H

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Re: Problem by HouseCode? It used to work!
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2013, 03:21:48 AM »
I had an RR501 go bad.
Power supply Zener Diode was warm enough to eventually turn the top of the PCB black and the solder get grainy.
I replaced it with two in series that added up to the original voltage rating and replaced the filter cap with a larger value one.
Been back in use for many years now.

Barry_IA

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Re: Problem by HouseCode? It used to work!
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2013, 10:04:13 AM »
Hi All!

Thanks for the feedback!  Looks like I'll be buying a new RR501!  It was warmish at the top, opened, faint smoke stain at the bottom: bottom left as one looks from the front.  Components don't look damaged: blue capacitor, coil, and the black wire to the plug at the top rear.  Think it will be less frustrating to buy a replacement than gunshot repair.  (Have read someplace a "Leviton HCPC" is better??  Repeats all Housecodes?  Know I have the model close but not quite right.)

As for the on-line hardware, possibly.  I did add a FilterLinc 1626 (probably the 5 Amp version) to correct a problem with the J3 controller.  Quite frankly I don't recall when the problem started with M2 -- I'm pretty sure some time after as I don't recollect a "this and this now don't work".   FWIW the M2 receiver is plugged in to the "Always On" (unfiltered) outlet of the FilterLinc 1626.  Will test a few things and get back.  Thanks again!

Jeff

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Re: Problem by HouseCode? It used to work!
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2013, 10:28:20 AM »
I don't recall reading any feedback on the Leviton all-housecode transceiver, but it is pretty unanimous that the best X10 transceivers available are made by WGL.  The V572A interfaces to the powerline through the X10 TW523 or equivalent.  The W800 interfaces directly to a computer through a USB port.

Jeff
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Barry_IA

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Re: Problem by HouseCode? It used to work!
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2013, 10:56:29 AM »
Hi Jeff!

Thanks for the info!  Will have to research and see which one is bets for my needs.   BTW, did dig through my notes and I was trying to think of the Leviton HCPRF "all housecode transceiver.  Apparently its the TM751, RR501, and the the HCPRF in the "good-better-best" according to what I read.  Will have to see what the V572A / TW523 combo does.

First guess I'll test what happens when I unplug the FinterLinc filter.  ...What's giving me a bit of a concern/confusion (and by no means am I questioning you nor the others) is how come the dimming part stays at 0% or where it was set via the GUI on Housecodes B, M and P but works fine on J and N with the same remote keypad.  ...Will test and get back!

TIA!

Jeff

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Re: Problem by HouseCode? It used to work!
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2013, 12:32:13 PM »
I've read through this several times, and it isn't exactly clear to me what your configuration is.  I believe you have two RF transceivers - the CM15A and the RR501.  The CM15A GUI "J" switches respond to your commands.  Since the RR501 would only handle one housecode (M?), I assume that the CM15A is relaying those "J" commands to the powerline.

Since your RR501 doesn't toggle when the button is pressed, it may not be responding to wireless commands either.  But your CM15A should if it is configured to transceive those housecodes.

Have you confirmed the CM15A should be transceiving the M housecode, and the dimmer module is defined as the old type in AHP?  While both are supposed to be polite transmitters, it is possible that the CM15A is responding to the dim command with an extended code, and the RR501 with a standard dimmer code, causing a conflict.

Perhaps a diagram would help, indicating what signal path you expect each of the commands to go through.  Also, please identify the phases and what you are using for a coupler.

Jeff
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Barry_IA

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Re: Problem by HouseCode? It used to work!
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2013, 04:00:06 PM »
I've read through this several times, and it isn't exactly clear to me what your configuration is.  I believe you have two RF transceivers - the CM15A and the RR501.  The CM15A GUI "J" switches respond to your commands.  Since the RR501 would only handle one housecode (M?), I assume that the CM15A is relaying those "J" commands to the powerline.

Hi Jeff!

All this has you confused? <laff>  The general Housecode is N; that's the one set as 'monitored' by "Hardware Configuration".   Due to either a noise problem or signal-sucker problem in the Dining Room I had switched those controllers to J.  (That problem was the lights in that room would go on and off by themselves, not turned on nor off by the software.  The problem was the new battery in the UPS.  FilterLinc solved that problem.  Should reconfigure the Dining Room back to N.)

The light I'm currently having problems with is at M2.  M1 controls the outdoor pumps, one to a fountain, other to a small decorative pond.  Part of the reason for a different Housecode is I don't want these devices (and a few others) to go on and off when the alarm system gets triggered (so far accidentally).  The light on M2 is the one I'm having problems with.  It is plugged into the "Always on" (unflitered) outlet of the FilterLinc 1626 -- I think the 5A version.) 

This afternoon I got out the extension cord; unplugged the M2 controller from the filter.  Tried multiple outlets and circuits - none worked (light stayed same state [on or off].  Tried plugging into different circuits (different circuit breakers); the first two I tried are definitely on different phases.

Tried both the keyfob (RKR24) which tests as being set to M1/M2 plus the handheld remote HR12A.  If I have the HR12A set to "M" it will not turn on the M2 light (because the dimmer stays at 0%, according to the on-screen display, even though the switch flips to 'On".  Same with the keyfob.  If I switch the HR12A to J it now controls the Dining Room lights: on, dim, off -- like it should.  The software also shows the switch going to ON and a split-second later the dimmer going to 100%, as it should.  LIS, when set to M the switch goes to ON but the dimmer stays at 0%, so the light appears off.

For poops and giggles I created a test circuit up here in the Computer Room.  This is using the same keyfob and remote control but a different controller.  Actually tested with two controllers: one is the old style like the M2 one and the other is the newer softstart.  Configured for P2 as I was doing some testing up here while at M2 and my S.O. for some reason got a little annoyed with the light going on/off/dim when I was testing -- oops!  (Dimming only worked because I was using the on-screen control.)  Did change from P2 to B2 due to the "P16 startup" thing.  Same problem with the dim function not working.

As for electrical, the USB Interface and the test circuit (B2/P2) are plugged in to the same outlet.  And if I change the test controller (B2/P2) to J2 (a Dining Room circuit) the test light dims!

Hope that's clearer!


 

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