Author Topic: Kit prices  (Read 4869 times)

Jeff

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Kit prices
« on: September 04, 2013, 11:55:23 AM »
Some folks have said the XTB kits are expensive.  I received a newsletter today that would indicate their prices are way too low.  It featured a $40 kit for a Vein Finder" that is just a bunch of red LEDs powered by a pair of AA cells.  It uses a universal prototyping PCB, and the case has to be machined by the kit builder.

    http://www.jameco.com/Jameco/Products/ProdDS/2190080KitInstructions.pdf

Compare that with the XTB-ANR kit for the same price:

     http://jvde.us/xtb/XTB-ANR_assembly.htm

Jeff
« Last Edit: September 04, 2013, 01:15:23 PM by Jeff »
X10 automation since the BSR days...

dave w

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Re: Kit prices
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2013, 12:53:59 PM »
My two cents is: Only a non user would complain about JV Digital Engineering kit OR finished product pricing. Quality components, along with superb design, producing high reliability and performance, costs more money.
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Brian H

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Re: Kit prices
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2013, 03:04:46 PM »
I agree. The designs and parts used are all top notch.

I bet the complainers are all use to the early X10 dirt cheap prices that are all gone now. The new X10 prices are much more costly now.

hawk1

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Re: Kit prices
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2013, 05:26:16 AM »
I also agree.  Jeff's products are excellent!   ;D
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Knightrider

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Re: Kit prices
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2013, 03:02:48 PM »
I am a JVDE kit builder, and thought the price was rather low, especially considering the functionality of the product.

Jeff

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Re: Kit prices
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2013, 09:41:52 PM »
I am a JVDE kit builder, and thought the price was rather low, especially considering the functionality of the product.

Thank you fellows for the vote of confidence.

The kits are priced near break even when all the hidden fixed expenses are included.  I found out at IRS time that I was actually selling the original XTB kits at a loss that first year when fixed expenses were included.

Jeff
X10 automation since the BSR days...

pomonabill22

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Re: Kit prices
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2013, 01:16:28 PM »
I, too have bought and built the original XTBM and have updated the firmware to a later version (don't know what it is right off hand).
I was VERY impressed!
The kitting... excellent
the attention to detail (like ESD protection of the micro, bagging the parts, etc.)... outstanding
the board quality and silkscreening... great
the price... VERY reasonable.
The effectivness at finding problems.... couldn't be better or more useful!
I fixed my father's and my problems and found some unusual signal suckers that made our X10 systems 100% (well.. maybe 98%).
FYI... my father's refrigerator had a BIG signal sucker!!!  WHO KNEW????  Guess it was the electronic temp display and controller!

I would NOT hesitate to recommend getting this great item, whether kit or assembled!  Even if you only use it a few times!  It will come in handy later to diagnose a flakey transmitter or find an intermittent module's problem... if the signal is good enough or is it being "clamped" by something, or is there alot of noise from an item.

Jeff

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Re: Kit prices
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2013, 01:34:25 PM »
Wow, thanks for the feedback pomonabill221!

Jeff
X10 automation since the BSR days...

pomonabill22

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Re: Kit prices
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2013, 12:03:26 PM »
You are welcome Jeff... I meant every word!
You have been VERY helpful when I found the little problems with the early versions of the firmware, and you were very accommodating!
Thanks for your efforts!
Now where is my free XTBR  (yeah right!... just kidding!)

In the future, I am looking to get a couple of the XTB-F10's though.

I know your prices are VERY reasonable... the parts are NOT the bulk of the cost, but your TIME and EFFORT that you put into your products!  AND it's worth it!

Jeff

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Re: Kit prices
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2013, 03:16:55 PM »
I know your prices are VERY reasonable... the parts are NOT the bulk of the cost, but your TIME and EFFORT that you put into your products!  AND it's worth it!

I think you would be surprised by how much the components actually cost if you look them up on Mouser or Digikey.   But thanks again for the feedback.

Jeff
X10 automation since the BSR days...

Jeff

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Re: Kit prices
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2013, 01:32:18 PM »
There has been enough demand for the XTB-523 to take advantage of quantity price discounts for several of the more expensive components.  That has allowed a price reduction for both the kit and assembled units.

Since the new XTBR shares many of the same components, and the X10 Boost input has been eliminated, its price has also been reduced.

Jeff
X10 automation since the BSR days...

Jeff

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Re: Kit prices
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2013, 02:08:28 PM »
Kit prices will be increasing in 2014.

Most kit prices have remained the same since they were introduced.  Some prices were even reduced as quantity discounts on some components were passed on to customers.  The kits had been sold at essentially break even after fixed expenses were covered.  The new prices will adjust for the amount of labor involved in producing the kits.

The labor charge on assembled units will also be increasing to make it feasible to offload some of the work to outside contractors.

If you are interested in purchasing any of these units, you might want to do so before the end of the year.

Jeff
X10 automation since the BSR days...

skywalker

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Re: Kit prices
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2013, 08:41:24 AM »
Jeff, Thanks for all the work and investments you have made personally in the JVDE products.  You are my X10 HERO! 
Just a few comments for the group.
  • Anyone who understands the depth of what you have accomplished, about what you are delivering, about unseen fixed costs - for them to complain about your pricing - well they need to "get a reality check". People are so spoiled / accustom to computers, motherboards, components being "uber cheap" when they forget about the production volumes required to reach those cost points.
  • You are offering a unique product which without I (and many others) would likely now have given up on keeping my X10 stuff working and likely moved to UPB.  Your work has breathed another decade or more into my basic X10 light and LOAD control home setups.  I will likely give up the ghost before the JVDE and my X10 items. 
  • My response may be atypical but I'll bet the majority of us who have been using X10 for decades, mainly b/c it was the first and only game in town, even if the JVDE kits / assembly costs increase substantially, for the QUALITY, attention to detail and support, you provide,  I would still be a customer and would recommend anyone (I have) who uses X10 to not consider anything else.  But I'm sure there are other potential and current X10 customers out there who may not feel the same.
  • Pricing is sensitive but a business must balance pricing against relative value and remain in business all while recouping investments and JUST compensation for your long hours of diligent work. 
  • JVDE provides REAL value to the X10 community. The true value underneath the skin of your products is the high quality, attention to detail and thoroughness in your designs and execution.  You think out of the box here. As a business owner, you have to manage costs and pricing to stay in the black unless you have a very understanding partner or angel investor who is supporting a cause.
  • I would wager if your XTB couplers had been available instead of the crap that was out there, X10's protocol would have held its own better against the newer UPB, Insteon and other protocols. When I look at some of the pricing for a single control simple relay module being $200+ USD, makes me wonder how the most of us could even consider venturing there.   I've also read quite a few forums and there is a mix of positive and negative feedback on the reliability and quality of some current products using these newer protocols.
  • As my dad always said and executed, "you get what you pay for..." 
 
Cheers, G. Mobley

bkenobi

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Re: Kit prices
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2013, 06:46:38 PM »
Having purchased a couple kits from Jeff, I figure I've got an opinion that others might share.  Going in, I was comparing the price of Jeff's products to the price of the entry level X10 equipment from 2+ years ago (~$5 for each module on ebay).  From that stand point, I considered the finished products expensive in relation to similar X10 branded equipment.  I waffled about the need for the XTBM for a few weeks before buying the kit to save a few dollars and so I could use my soldering skills for at least one real project.  I have to say though, that was by far the best money I have spent in all of my HA budget.

Since the XTBM was so useful and showed that I had an unresolvable issue with signal strength as well as all the great communication in troubleshooting Jeff provided, I decided to jump on the XTB-IIR kit.  I found it very easy to assemble with the instructions Jeff provided and was shocked at how much better the system worked than with the X10 repeater coupler (XPCR).

For reference, I'm very cheap and don't spend money on things that need to be purchased until it's mandatory, so when I say that these products are a good deal, I think that means something.  I haven't used Jeff's filters yet (only because I found give away prices on SmartHome units), but both those and the XTB-ANR are ones that may be in my future depending on what X10 introduces down the line.

Thanks again Jeff!

dave w

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Re: Kit prices
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2013, 03:05:00 PM »

For reference, I'm very cheap....

"Frugal" bkenobi, frugal. <grin, wink>
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