Author Topic: Random failures  (Read 3509 times)

IBMJunkman

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Re: Random failures
« Reply #30 on: February 14, 2017, 07:44:07 PM »
How will the XTBM work if connected to a light socket that is turned off?

IBMJunkman

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Re: Random failures
« Reply #31 on: February 14, 2017, 07:49:55 PM »
I am going to try something else. I have purchased some WS469 relay control switches. Since they apparently use the neutral wire and do not depend on bleed current to work I might have better luck.  Gets the LED out of the control circuit.

Jeff

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Re: Random failures
« Reply #32 on: February 14, 2017, 10:09:44 PM »
How will the XTBM work if connected to a light socket that is turned off?

The bulb would not be generating any noise when it is off either.

Jeff
X10 automation since the BSR days...

bkenobi

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Re: Random failures
« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2017, 08:46:22 AM »
You were looking for an outlet that was connected to the same breaker as the lights you have an issue with.  It's common to have more than one set of lights connected to the same breaker but not necessarily any outlets.  As an example, my house has things broken up with all lights and a few critical systems and outlets on one panel and everything else including most outlets on a second panel.  The first one has a generator transfer switch.

I was suggesting that if you don't have any outlets connected to that breaker, you could find a socket (not necessarily on the offending switch) and convert it temporarily into an outlet for testing.  If the outlet is turned off with the XTBM installed behind it, obviously that won't provide any diagnostics.  If you plug the XTBM into a different set of lights and want to make sure those bulbs aren't going to cause issues themselves, you could remove them during testing.

IBMJunkman

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Re: Random failures
« Reply #34 on: February 16, 2017, 07:34:09 PM »
Replaced S2 with a WS469. Works fine. Replaced S1 with WS469. LED indicator lights up. Controlled lights go on and off if I use the switch button. But using a controller I hear the relay click twice and the lights flash twice and stay off. If I turn them on at the switch the controller will turn them off.

Isn't this fun?   :)

Brian H

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Re: Random failures
« Reply #35 on: February 17, 2017, 04:05:12 AM »
There is a thread on the X10 Forums. Where a user is having issues with a WS469. When used with a CS277 Companion Switch.
Almost exact symptoms you are having with the WS469.

There maybe a difference between how a CS277 is wired for a WS477 or WS469.
I have two version instructions for the WS4777 Kit.

Older one WS477 Blue is Line in. Black Load out.
Newer one WS477 Black Line in Blue Load out.
WS469 Black is Line in. Blue Load out.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 06:15:00 AM by Brian H »

IBMJunkman

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Re: Random failures
« Reply #36 on: February 17, 2017, 07:58:59 AM »
To answer a query on the X10 forum the problem occurs with LED or incandescent bulbs. So noise is not a problem.  As mentioned over there I tried disconnecting the red traveller at the CS277 and the WS469 works.  I guess this basically converts the circuit to a 1 way. Which in this situation I can live with. I never use the remote switch.  I am looking for consistent automation with lights staying on when they should, not convenience.

Not sure how the wires were run when the house was built. This circuit has 1 lamp physically between the remote and WS469 and the other lamp 10 feet from the WS469 with a double door in between. I have no idea how the loads are connected.

I would have to do a wire by wire trace to document this circuit. For now that can wait.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 08:06:41 AM by IBMJunkman »

Brian H

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Re: Random failures
« Reply #37 on: February 17, 2017, 01:39:23 PM »
Well I have found come conflicts in the documentation versions and what is on the back of my WS12A/WS13A devices.
The same conflicts of connections are in the earlier WS477/CS277 and later versions of their documentation.

I have a WS12A {WS477 with added paddle and trim}. Wired it both ways from the older and newer documentation.
Simulated the CS277 by touching both Load and Line.
In my case either way was fine. The WS469 maybe different.

If you have no problems with using the switch as a single without the companion. That would be the easiest for now until you can tackle the issue.

« Last Edit: February 18, 2017, 03:14:13 AM by Brian H »

IBMJunkman

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Re: Random failures
« Reply #38 on: February 19, 2017, 07:24:41 AM »
Ran into the same problem on another 3-way circuit. Had to disconnect the red traveller at the remote to get the WS469 to work. Disconnecting at the WS469 did not help. Which makes no sense if the traveller was 1 wire between the 2 switches.

But all the lights came on last night, stayed on all night and turned off this morning. Granted, this is only 1 set of data points but I have high hopes.

This will let me replace the 60w LED with 100w LED.  You can never have too many lumens around the outside of your house.  :)  With the old switches the 100w bulbs would dimly glow all the time when off.

IBMJunkman

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Re: Random failures
« Reply #39 on: March 20, 2017, 01:52:36 PM »
Well, a 1 month follow up. All house exterior lamps are now 100 watt CREE LEDs. Controlled by WS469s. Working flawlessly.  External garage lights controlled by a WS477 in the garage and always worked fine. Installed a WS469 and I would see the lights turn off 2 or 3 times a night. Installed a new WS469. Same problem.  Plugged an ANR into the closest socket.  Now working fine. The only powered thing in the garage when I am not in it is a high quality trickle charge.

I am now happy.

Brian H

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Re: Random failures
« Reply #40 on: March 21, 2017, 03:36:33 AM »
Thank you for the update.
Good to see the problems have been solved.

Jeff

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Re: Random failures
« Reply #41 on: March 21, 2017, 08:54:51 AM »
Plugged an ANR into the closest socket.  Now working fine. The only powered thing in the garage when I am not in it is a high quality trickle charge.

Even though it is a high quality trickle charger, it still might be injecting noise onto the powerline.

Anyway, I'm glad to hear the XTB-ANR is doing the job.  Have you noted what the LED is indicating for a noise level?

Jeff
X10 automation since the BSR days...

IBMJunkman

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Re: Random failures
« Reply #42 on: March 22, 2017, 08:06:16 AM »
Well, I spoke too soon. Got up this morning and light was off. Turned it on and some time later I saw it go off again.  No activity showed on the XTBM Pro that is in the house. I plan to move it to the same socket in the garage the ANR is in.

The garage has its own sub panel so I will look at a panel based filter. I think the panel is 2 phase.

bkenobi

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Re: Random failures
« Reply #43 on: March 22, 2017, 02:04:49 PM »
A whole house filter (PZZ01) will isolate the garage from everything outside the garage.  As a result, you will not be able to send commands to the garage sub panel from the main panel.  If that's ok, your solution would isolate anything causing issues sourced from the main panel into the sub.  But, it will not remove issues that are caused within the sub panel itself.  If that's the filter your are talking about, I'd look elsewhere.

Jeff

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Re: Random failures
« Reply #44 on: March 23, 2017, 06:32:36 AM »
Got up this morning and light was off. Turned it on and some time later I saw it go off again.  No activity showed on the XTBM Pro that is in the house.

That sounds like something other than random noise simulating actual X10 commands if the light was switched off twice within a short period of time.  I've read reports that some X10 switches are sensitive to line transients.  The XTBM-Pro would catch that, but a single transient would only be displayed for several seconds.

Jeff
« Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 06:36:23 AM by Jeff »
X10 automation since the BSR days...