Author Topic: Glow in the dark  (Read 4089 times)

IBMJunkman

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Glow in the dark
« on: January 17, 2015, 12:46:34 PM »
Just replaced my 60w 5000K CREE bulbs with the new CREE 100w 5000K bulbs. 

1 pair of single bulb fixtures is on a 3-way circuit controlled by a X10 hard on-off wall switch.  When off the old 60w bulbs were dark. 
The new ones appear to be partly on and they pulsate at a rate not related to the 60Hz line frequency.

I have another 2 fixtures with 2 new 100w bulbs each also controlled by a X10 hard on-off wall switch.  They are dark when off.

Any idea why the 60s were dark but one set of the new 100s are dark and the other 100s 'glow'?

Brian H

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Re: Glow in the dark
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2015, 03:16:23 PM »
X10 dimmer or relay On Off type switch?
The dimmer X10 switches steal power through the load and are only made for incandescent type loads. Though many of the dimmable LED bulbs work OK. If you are using a dimmer type. The small current always through the bulb is exciting the Cree 100 watt bulb enough to pulse. The 60 watts have a different driver and may not pulse.
LED bulbs can be a test it for compatibility thing.

I have two 60 watt Philips AmbientLED bulbs. An earlier and later design. Each acts different then the other one when on an X10 module.

If you have an On Off relay type. Than we may have a different issue.

IBMJunkman

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Re: Glow in the dark
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2015, 06:43:49 PM »
If the switches are dimmers I forgot how to make them dim.  They have a rectangular push button with a slide under it.

When I used the 60s all my lights worked fine.  With the 100s the circuit with the 2 2 lamp fixtures and the circuit with the 2 1 lamp fixtures do not come on when the MT10A sends the on signal.  The circuit with 1 bulb works fine.

I noticed this morning all the lamps turned off the the MT10A said to.

I am tempted to buy a JVDE booster.

Jeff

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Re: Glow in the dark
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2015, 06:54:13 AM »
Unless your switch contains a neutral connection, power for the switch electronics is fed through the load.  While small, that can be enough to cause sort of a "relaxation oscillator" with the bulb electronics, and cause the effect you see.

The 3-wire switches designed for CFL and LED loads feed the switch power through neutral rather than the load.  The relay switches do supply a very small current through the load to sense which state the relay is in, but that should not cause the bulb to pulsate like yours is doing.

None of the XTB signal boosters would make any difference in this issue.

Jeff
X10 automation since the BSR days...

Brian H

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Re: Glow in the dark
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2015, 07:21:15 AM »
I have seen the samething with different LED bulbs and a two wire X10 wall switch.
Some would not go On but would go Off. Some On but not Off. Some just didn't work at all.
Some pulsed and flickered all the time.

joesam

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Re: Glow in the dark
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2015, 07:52:27 AM »
Definitely sounds like a 2 wire switch.  I have a couple of those and I do use LED on one of them (pantry) - but only 60 watt.  I have had better luck with Feit (dimmable) LED bulbs rather than CREE; but its definitely a test-and-see exercise.  The flicker will not be solved with a booster/repeater - it will just ensure your X10 signal is getting through to the switch for OFF/ON success.

Brian H

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Re: Glow in the dark
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2015, 12:30:42 PM »
Your description sounds like a WS467 or a WS4777 three way version with a companion switch.
http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/WS467
http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/WS4777

Both steal power through the load.

The only X10 switch I can think of that is strictly On and Off with a mechanical switch is the WS13A. It has a paddle on it and not a small button. It would also have a neutral power connection. In addition to the line and load.
http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/WS13A
« Last Edit: January 18, 2015, 01:05:06 PM by Brian H »

IBMJunkman

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Re: Glow in the dark
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2015, 06:59:29 PM »
Well, this is strange. Yesterday and today all the lights came on and went off just like they are supposed to.  No changes to anything.

Just one thing that bugs me about X10.  Inconsistancy. 

Brian H

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Re: Glow in the dark
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2015, 03:07:40 AM »
An intermittent noise source or signal sucker on the power lines. Can cause hard to find intermittent X10 problems.
 

joesam

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Re: Glow in the dark
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2015, 07:50:34 AM »
But inconsistent X10, or noise can't really make a bulb glow or un-glow (is that a word?) - but bad hardware or a bad/changing or aging bulb can.  Your still referring to your original complaint of a glowing bulb that is suddenly not glowing.....right?

Brian H

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Re: Glow in the dark
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2015, 09:59:26 AM »
Most likely I veered off course.
I saw X10 inconsistencies and thought of signal problems.   ???

I have seen Cree bulbs change over time. I have a 40 watt TW. That one day went pop and went out. Ten minutes later it was OK and has not made a sound since. Still working fine. Though being carefully observed.

joesam

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Re: Glow in the dark
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2015, 10:23:58 AM »
Hmmmm-popping bulbs isn't a design feature is it?  I'm guessing his LED's kinda broke-in to the low current environment somewhat; and maybe have reduced a tiny bit in sensitivity?  Not as dramatic as popping - but a good thing in the end I guess.  I'd be really surprised if he reports the bulbs start re-glowing at some point.  Now that would be a mystery!

Brian H

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Re: Glow in the dark
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2015, 08:49:14 AM »
If you are interested on how the Cree 60 watt is built.
Here is a tear down and review.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6DDFRBrSas&list=UUqp2_p4YjtaTKiHuNZv0mAQ&index=72

Notice there is a set of metal contacts that connect the driver electronics to the LED assembly. Just a theory on mine going pop.
There may have been some contamination on the contacts. That maybe burned off.

I have early revision bulbs and the production quality was still being improved. I have had the shells fall off or have a crack under the silicon coating on the shell. I have one where there is a piece of a broken shell is inside the bulb from another bulb.