Author Topic: LED lite-strips - seeking ideas  (Read 9216 times)

joesam

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LED lite-strips - seeking ideas
« on: January 27, 2014, 09:49:56 AM »
I decided to move this LED discussion to a separate thread.  Do SR227 Super Sockets still have current sensing?  If not - then that's the most likely solution to the LED over-counter strips I've been asking about.  If they do have current sensing, has anyone ever disabled it with a mod?  After all - the current mini warts or appliance modules are occupying a socket anyway - why not just go internal with this?

I was thinking more about the surgical socket rocket solution also - I suppose its possible to excricate the guts from one and have it live inside the electrical box on the kitchen counter but control only one of the sockets.  What concerns me though, is that its a KITCHEN SOCKET and someone might thoughlessly plug a kettle into it it at some point - creating an involuntary smoke signal....those little rockets aren't exactly known for their high current capacity.

Brian H

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Re: LED lite-strips - seeking ideas
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2014, 10:05:24 AM »
The manual on the X10 site mentions local sensing.
http://www.authinx.com/manuals/X10/SR227.pdf

To continue from your other thread.
Don't use an LM465 Lamp Module to drive the wall wart power supplies.
You can damage one or both of them. Even at 100% ON the lamp module slightly modifies the AC output.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2014, 10:08:55 AM by Brian H »

joesam

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Re: LED lite-strips - seeking ideas
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2014, 10:21:15 AM »
I'll search the X-10 generic site to see if anyone has done any surgery to SR227.  When I get home from work tonite, I'll stop being slack and do the other tests with xmas lite & old appliance module, as well as the "newer" appliance module without the nite lite.  I'll also look for quick surgical solutions for the old appliance modules I have.  I seem to recall that if I cut one resistor (or something) I may be able to create a non sensing version (but can't really be sure I saw that somewhere or not).

joesam

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Re: LED lite-strips - seeking ideas
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2014, 11:29:22 AM »
OK - heres what the generic site said about SR227 -

"I just disabled local control on two SR227's today (16 July 2006) and verified that this procedure works:

To disable local control on the SR227-C Supersocket, remove the 2 screws from the back of the
socket that enables one to remove the back cover, sliding the black and white wires through the
holes as the back cover is removed. The jumper for pin 7 of the 78570 IC is the small jumper
closest to the RF can transformer and pin 1 of the IC on the component side of the PC board.
Cut it and local control is disabled. The only other jumper on the component side of this PC
board is close to pins 16 and 17 on the other side of the IC close to where a smaller gauge
black wire comes out of the PC board in an area with lots of real estate. Do not cut this one.
Replace the back cover and the 2 screws holding it on and you're done!

Then in another spot:

For the SR227 with CFLs you need to clip the lead of the 1N4004 Diode (The one connected to the 2.2K res and .01 cap on the AM486 schematic) to eliminate the flicker. This can be found near the corner of the circuit board where the black "line" wire is located. If the black wire is on your upper left, the .01 cap is just below it (blue on my SR227). Just to the right of the cap you will see the 1N4004. Just clip the lead at the top and U R done"!"

And then finally in yet another post:

Just in case some are still searching for that (or need a validation it's working)... I modded two of my sr227 used to control CFLs in my inhouse hydroponic garden and it works perfectly now. There's TWO IN4004 DIode on the sr227 board, locate the one just near the big blue capacitor (black wire side of the board) and snip snip,   same as the AM486."


There were no photos, and I have no SR227's - one of these is probably correct - they don't all sound the same.  Which one(s) do you guys think are correct for my application if I go this way?

joesam

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Re: LED lite-strips - seeking ideas
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2014, 11:44:31 AM »
OK - I just bought two SR227's (ebay) - even if they don't work after modification, I have other applications to use them for anyway - so no loss!  I'm sure when I take them apart, I'll know what to do - PLUS the testing with the newer appliance modules will have taken place by then.  But I'm certain all I have to do is disable current sensing.

Brian H

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Re: LED lite-strips - seeking ideas
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2014, 01:24:29 PM »
The Jumper stops the module from turning On when the local sensing circuit detects a change. It does not stop the actual current on the outlet.
The Diode removal stops the actual current on the outlet.
I have cut both the diode and the jumper on the appliance models that have them.
Older ones from what I have read are different.
I don't know if X10 ever got the SR227's updated with the latest surface mounted IC like they did with the Appliance Modules.
Let us know if things look strange.
There are nice photos of the Appliance Modules on this web site and what was done to remove the Local Control Sensing.
Not too much on the SR227's
http://www.idobartana.com/hakb/index.htm

joesam

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Re: LED lite-strips - seeking ideas
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2014, 02:10:05 PM »
Thanks - so diode removal is the key.  OK - well if I feel puzzled at all, I will attach a photo of the insides of one of my SR227's and photo shop some arrows on the photos pointing to things I'll need explained.  Since I'm in Canada, everything that is shipped from eBay takes a minimum of 10 days longer than USA.  So if I appear to have fallen asleep on this topic - just remember that.

Its not too bad though - shipping delays have taught me patience and allow preparation for stuff (like for Jeff's repeater).  Not only was the repeater install quick and flawless due to prep - the short wires from the junction box to his circuitboard were skillfully twisted, heat shrunk in a white jacket, and all the correct colors (a shortcut I've been known to take when impatient).  Also, my V572A got relocated and carefully mounted.

I will do a little site searching for photos of the inside of SR227 - they might be out there somewhere; and God knows I'll have the time!

joesam

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Re: LED lite-strips - seeking ideas
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2014, 05:41:05 PM »
So, I wasn't slack tonite for a change.  The so-called newer appliance module I tried just isn't new enough (no surprise here).  YES, the LED lights work when in conjunction with a little incandescent night lite added to the load - but not without.  That's pretty much as expected I think.

Brian H

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Re: LED lite-strips - seeking ideas
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2014, 03:13:07 AM »
Yes it seems you newer appliance module has the local control sensing current.
Because it uses a diode in the circuit it isn't even a small AC current. It is more like a half wave DC pulse. Many wall warts don't like that.

bkenobi

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Re: LED lite-strips - seeking ideas
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2014, 07:16:13 AM »
I have been using SR227 modules for years and would highly recommend them.  The only down side I have found is that they are monsters and can be difficult to install in a standard box.  I have installed at least half a dozen of these and a couple OutletLinc's (last weekend).  In all cases, they are a tight fit.

I have used these modules with outdoor string lights, xmas lights, and a couple fluorescent fixtures.  In all cases, these modules work great.  I have not used the OutletLinc's yet (they were installed for next year's Xmas lighting in front of the house).

Why don't these work with CFL's when they work fine for standard tube fluorescent fixtures?  In my case, I'm using 2x 4' T8 40W bulbs with electronic ballasts.  The newer magnetic ballasts should work even better, but mine work fine as is.

joesam

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Re: LED lite-strips - seeking ideas
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2014, 07:36:14 AM »
Thx bkenobi, one can never tell the size of something from just photos!  I've crammed some Leviton 20A relay modules in a couple switch boxes and was thankful for the smooth jaw & skinny, extra long needle nose pliers I keep in the household tool box.  Perfect for conforming the solid copper wires out-of-the-way.  In my case, the house does not have any traveler wires - so I will only be dealing with two obstacles plus the bare ground.

joesam

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Re: LED lite-strips - seeking ideas
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2014, 12:00:50 PM »
Despite waiting 3 weeks; the SR227's that I ordered on eBay have still not arrived!  I warned you guys that bad/ridiculous/slow shipping to Canada is a "feature" of eBay purchases here.  The problem is primarily Canadian Customs - not USPS - but I got tired of waiting on Saturday and against Brian H's rational advice, which was:

"If 1 amp is for 6 strips. That is .166 Amps per strip. 2 strips is .33 amps.  80mA is .08 Amps.  I would say a definite No on driving the strips.

I decided to have a go at dismounting 1 foot of the under-counter LED strip and try powering it with one of the cheap/used camera 80-mA power supplies I had acquired for $6 ea. on a whim.  Surprise, surprise....the 1 foot strip was just as bright as the OEM power supply (clearly the LED's power supply was hugely overbuilt).  Then I put two LED strips inline to make sure the little X10 camera supply could power 2 ft of LED (which is my longest run).  Indeed it could - although I "think" I perceive the 2 ft strip to be barely/marginally less brilliant.  But I'm OK with that, because I felt the two foot strip under-counter was a tad too bright anyway.

Just to be safe (AKA people mentioned melting stuff on various forums) I left the 2 ft LED strip and camera supply powered up on my cement/basement floor for about 36 continuous hours and touched the little camera wart for any heat buildup (as much heat as 80mA could create anyway) which was zero - cool to the touch.  So last night I set about mounting the new setup - and everything works just great - no need to modify SR227's when they eventually show up (which is supposed to be in tomorrow's mail).  Now I'll have them for some other application! 

Accidentally though, they stayed lit last night.  Why?  Because a camera power supply won't respond to "All Lights Off"...naturally.  I've fixed that in my programming, now!

Brian H

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Re: LED lite-strips - seeking ideas
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2014, 03:24:08 PM »
Give us a progress report in a few weeks. Let us know how the supply is holding up.

bkenobi

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Re: LED lite-strips - seeking ideas
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2014, 03:59:39 PM »
Nice work.  If you were curious, you could use a DMM to determine the actual load that the lights are pulling.  The manufacture probably rounded under the worst case (whatever that is).

At this point, I'm weary of using back of envelope calculations for load after nearly burning the house down with my toasty lamp modules!  I will be measuring the actual current prior to installing unattended equipment in the future even when it seems to work at the time of installation.

joesam

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Re: LED lite-strips - seeking ideas
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2014, 04:16:21 PM »
No worries. I'll come-clean if the power supplies crater. After all, I will have a couple SR227 modules on standby if they are needed.