JVDE X10 Forum

X10 Powerline Control => XTB Products => Topic started by: Jeff on August 16, 2013, 06:16:10 AM

Title: XTB-F10 & XTB-F15 X10 Filters
Post by: Jeff on August 16, 2013, 06:16:10 AM
There have been several questions on these filters, so here is an updated post that I originally made on the X10 Forum:
----------------
In case anyone is interested, here is a frequency sweep showing the response of the XTB-F10 and the X10 Pro XPF.  The sweep is linear from 20KHz to 220KHz, with 120KHz (the X10 frequency) at the center.

(http://jvde.us/info/F10_XPF_sweep.jpg)

The top sweep is the simulated powerline noise at 2V per cm.  The lower two traces show the noise that passed through the XTB-F10 and XPF at 200mV per cm.  A resistor was inserted in series with each filter to prevent loading down my signal generator and causing interaction between the two filters.  (Without the resistor, the peaks on the XPF are much larger as that series-resonant circuit sucks energy from the signal generator.)

The XTB-F15 performs similarly against powerline noise, but it isn't quite as good at isolating "signal suckers" as the F10 due to its lower value inductors.

Jeff
Title: Re: XTB-F10 & XTB-F15 X10 Filters
Post by: Jeff on March 04, 2015, 11:01:03 AM
Someone just asked me how the XTB-F10 performs compared with the SmartHome FilterLinc.  I obtained a schematic of the FilterLinc off the web, and ran a simulation with those values comparing the two filters.  Below are the results.

The frequency sweep ranges from 100KHz to 140KHz, with 120KHz at 5ms.  The green trace is the XTB-F10.

The FilterLinc schematic lists the shunt capacitor as 250VDC mylar.  The XTB-F10 uses one rated at 275VAC for across-line operation.  The XTB-F10 also includes a bleed resistor to discharge the shunt capacitor, which is absent from the FilterLinc schematic.

(http://jvde.us/info/F10_FilterLinc.gif)

You decide which is better...

Jeff
Title: Re: XTB-F10 & XTB-F15 X10 Filters
Post by: Brian H on March 04, 2015, 03:25:00 PM
OH yes. I have seen many posts on the Smarthome and Insteon forums. On getting a shock from the male AC pins when the user had disconnected the load and then disconnected it from the AC wall socket.  While the capacitor was charged. When the Filterlinc was unplugged near a  peak of the AC Line voltage.

I am actually surprised that with no bleed resistor and a across the AC power line x2 rated AC capacitor. Got an ETL certification.

I have also seen reports the latest revision 1.3 Filterlincs didn't work as well as the older revisions. I took one apart and the yellow toroid coils are slightly different. Older revisions has a ten turn widely spaced winding. The v1.3 has a nine turn closely spaced winding. Both seem to use the same yellow toroid core and capacitor values.
Title: Re: XTB-F10 & XTB-F15 X10 Filters
Post by: Jeff on March 04, 2015, 08:55:22 PM
I have also seen reports the latest revision 1.3 Filterlincs didn't work as well as the older revisions. I took one apart and the yellow toroid coils are slightly different. Older revisions has a ten turn widely spaced winding. The v1.3 has a nine turn closely spaced winding. Both seem to use the same yellow toroid core and capacitor values.

They may have taken that turn off to reduce the inductance and move its center frequency up around 130KHz to be more effective at the Insteon frequency.

Jeff
Title: Re: XTB-F10 & XTB-F15 X10 Filters
Post by: Brian H on October 26, 2015, 06:01:22 AM
Jeff;
I want to confirm. That the XTBF10 and XTBF15 would be effective on the Insteon 131.65KHz power line signals?
Reason I am asking. It looks like ACT is discontinuing their A10/X10 devices and after the AF120 stock is depleted. They maybe gone.
Title: Re: XTB-F10 & XTB-F15 X10 Filters
Post by: Jeff on October 26, 2015, 08:05:23 AM
I want to confirm. That the XTBF10 and XTBF15 would be effective on the Insteon 131.65KHz power line signals?

While tuned to 120KHz, the filters are broadband enough to also be quite effective at the Insteon frequency.  You can see that in the plot above.

Jeff